Groth Gets it! by Groth Law Accident Injury Attorneys – Meet Giancarlo, our newest Law Clerk

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What does a law clerk do and what makes a good lawyer?

In this episode of Groth Gets it! from Groth Law Accident Injury Attorneys, Jon talks with Giancarlo, our newest Law Clerk. He shares how he got into the legal field, what makes a good lawyer, and what he has been working on since starting at Groth Law Accident Injury Attorneys.

Transcript:

Jon Groth:

Awesome. It works. Hey. We’re just recording now, the Groth Gets It podcast with Jean Carlo, our special guest. One of our law clerks. So Jean Carlo, this is our I think, weekly podcast. We have this thing where it’s on, what are all the different types? Spotify, Apple Podcasts. Does Pandora have a podcast?

Jon Groth:

Does anybody even go Pandora anymore?

Giancarlo:

I don’t think so. No.

Jon Groth:

It used to be the coolest one, was Pandora. Wasn’t it the first? Before Spotify became the one, Pandora was your way to get music and podcasts. And even really, before podcasts were cool. So how do you get all your podcasts in music?

Giancarlo:

I usually get it through a mix of YouTube and Spotify. So I watch a lot of sports podcasts. And usually, they’re on YouTube. If not, I’ll go on Spotify. But it doesn’t really matter. I guess sometimes, I like to see the interaction. Especially if it’s a heated debate, I like seeing the faces and the interaction. So I usually go on YouTube.

Jon Groth:

So that’s more like watching a debate program, back in the day. With… I don’t know. Who were the… The Firing Line or something, on CNN. Back in the seventies and eighties. William F. Buckley, and whoever else he would debate.

Jon Groth:

So you’re watching YouTube podcasts, but it’s just videos of people recording a podcast.

Giancarlo:

Very similar to how Sports Center does, or how they did First Take with Steven A. Smith and Skip Bayless. But the ones I watch are more on a local perspective. So for my local home teams. Which I found, gives a better perspective on what’s actually going on.

Jon Groth:

So let’s go back to that. Where are you originally from?

Giancarlo:

I’m from Miami, Florida.

Jon Groth:

And you’re going to law school where?

Giancarlo:

Marquette Law School.

Jon Groth:

And where did you go for your undergraduate degree?

Giancarlo:

Florida State University.

Jon Groth:

FSU. Okay.

Jon Groth:

Who’s the big quarterback for FSU now?

Giancarlo:

There is no big quarterback for FSU.

Jon Groth:

Oh. Is that probably a sore subject?

Giancarlo:

I mean, it is what it is.

Jon Groth:

Yeah.

Giancarlo:

I was there for a national championship. That’s all I could ask for.

Jon Groth:

Yeah. That’s pretty cool.

Giancarlo:

I have this argument with my friends where, he still believes in the current quarterback. And I do not think he’s any good.

Jon Groth:

Okay.

Giancarlo:

So that’s just a little debate we have going on. He’s basically one of those kids who doesn’t really throw the ball well. He just runs a lot.

Giancarlo:

So we have that argument, whether that would translate to the professionals. Which I don’t think it will.

Jon Groth:

Yeah. Michael Vick-ish, I guess. I don’t know.

Giancarlo:

A very, very, very poor man’s Michael Vick.

Jon Groth:

Yeah. Okay.

Giancarlo:

He doesn’t run that well either. But…

Jon Groth:

Okay. Well, sorry. Now we’re digressing into a sports podcast. Groth Gets It, sports podcasting. I guess, we’re really good at tangents on this thing. So we’re talking about our podcast. So thank you for being willing to sit down, and talk for a little bit.

Jon Groth:

So your undergraduate degree was in what?

Giancarlo:

So I graduated with a major in history. And I got a minor in criminology and general business as well.

Jon Groth:

And with a history major, minor in general business and criminology, law school is the option?

Giancarlo:

That seemed to be the case. I’ve always had it implanted. I was the son of two immigrants. My mom from the second I could understand anything she said, one day you’re going to be a lawyer. So that was always imprinted on my mind. Even going to law school, I wasn’t really sure what I wanted to do in the law. But I knew my mom always told me, one day you’re going to be a lawyer. So I stuck with that.

Jon Groth:

Interesting.

Giancarlo:

It was very… They worked hard jobs. My mom would work certain jobs so that she can still raise us. And not have to put us in an afterschool program, where she would never see us.

Giancarlo:

And I’ve seen her go through some hard times. So I knew that I was going to make good on what she wanted for me.

Jon Groth:

Good for you. That’s awesome. Yeah. I think just lots of doors can be opened if you go to law school, become a lawyer. Well, have a Juris Doctor. You don’t even have to practice law, but you can certainly do a lot of different things.

Jon Groth:

And this is Marquette, right? I mean… With the sports law Institute. I had classmates of mine and some people who were a couple classes below me or after me in law school, who went on to be athletic directors and assistant athletic directors. And that kind of stuff. So you just never know. And I don’t know if they ever even practiced law per se. They went right into the sports management program. And certainly, having a law degree helped them. Because now they’re very, very successful in the sports law.

Giancarlo:

It definitely seems like a do it all degree. I guess, it’s just… You can go into any field, and it may not be required. But the fact that you have it, is always a big plus. Other than obviously, you can’t go into medicine with a law degree. But for the most part, anything else, having the law degree really helps.

Giancarlo:

I did some internships, working in compliance at some athletic departments. And both of my supervisors had law degrees, even though they weren’t using them.

Jon Groth:

Cool. Yeah. It’s… I’m trying to think of other classmates of mine, and what they’re doing. Gosh. I had classmates of mine that went to medical school first, then went to law school. And they chose I guess, their law degree over the medical. Because, they still practice law today. Interesting.

Jon Groth:

All right. Well, let’s talk about some stuff you’re doing here.

Giancarlo:

Sure.

Jon Groth:

Thank you for sharing your history with us. So right now, you’re clerking here at Groth Law Firm. And you are… I know I pulled you away from a project, from attorney Truesdale. That you’re doing some citation checking for a brief that he is working on.

Giancarlo:

Yes.

Jon Groth:

Do you know what just the general facts of that brief are? What the case is?

Giancarlo:

Yeah. So he didn’t show me the entire case. Basically, it seemed like a minor point on damages. I guess, there was an argument whether the plaintiff can collect damages. I guess they were arguing if they can collect damages, because they made them update their itemized list of damages.

Giancarlo:

So then there was an argument of, from what point to what point can you collect damages? So from the date of the accident, to the date of the trial. And Ryan was telling me, he’s like, this is a given. So I don’t know if you’re going to find anything.

Jon Groth:

Yeah. It’s too obvious.

Giancarlo:

Exactly. So it was a too obvious point to argue. So most of the cases I found, I wasn’t really able to find anything explaining it. But it was just a given.

Jon Groth:

Yeah.

Giancarlo:

It said, here are the damages from the date of the accident to the date of the trial. And there’s no explanation, because it’s just a given. So I just sent them some of that, and…

Jon Groth:

Well that’s what lawyers are good for, is to make an argument over nothing. So that sounds like it’s so obvious that somebody’s going to come up and say, oh. I think we’re going to argue that point, because I want to just argue for the sake of arguing. Sadly, that’s the case. And sadly, that’s why I think lawyers have jobs. Because we have just that mentality that well, this isn’t totally explicit. So let’s try to see if my side can win, by throwing some mud against the wall and seeing if it sticks. Interesting.

Jon Groth:

So you’re doing that. You’re helping out with some brief writing. And then, what else are you doing? I know we talked about some demands that you’re helping to write. What kind of… I guess, that’s educational podcast here. What part of the case is that? And what are you doing to help out the attorneys?

Giancarlo:

So mainly, I’ve focused solely on demands right now. I’ll keep getting more stuff on my plate, as I go along. So essentially, that is the part where we are reaching out to the insurance and saying basically, this is what happened. This is the injury that was sustained. And we are demanding that they pay X amount. Saying we have spoken to our client, or we suggest that they take anything at X amount of dollars.

Giancarlo:

And then, we would wait from a response from them. And then, go from there.

Jon Groth:

And you’re looking over all the medical records, probably the case file, to see what the facts of the case are. To see if there’s any concerns of reliability and contributory negligence, or comparative negligence probably.

Giancarlo:

And it’s definitely painting a picture. Because, you have all these medical records from several different dates. And you have to progress and show what the harm is, and how it’s progressing. The treatment. How they’re feeling. Has there been any setbacks? And then, you also… I think a trick to it that I also picked up doing an internship last summer, that I don’t think a lot of people realize is that, it’s a skill to know how to explain things to someone who doesn’t have your education or your law degree.

Jon Groth:

To tell a story. Yeah.

Giancarlo:

So that’s a really big thing. Because I’ve been in classes, and I’ve spoken to people on both ends. Where they will explain it. And in their head, it’s very simple. But the way they send it out, it doesn’t make sense.

Giancarlo:

So that’s one of the struggle… Not really a struggle. But it’s one of the things you have to take in account of when you read it and be like, I understand it. But if the other person who’s actually receiving and has to take action on that doesn’t understand it, then you’re not doing a good job.

Giancarlo:

It may sound as eloquent as you want, and have all the nice vocabulary. But if the person reading it, that has to do something doesn’t understand it, then it’s not really doing its job.

Jon Groth:

Yeah. What can you say? What can you get across to that person, that’s going to make them move? Make them take action? Open their pocket book, or respond in a certain way? Well, that goes back to your history major. So I guess, being a good communicator. And presidents wise, you have President Roosevelt, President Reagan, President Clinton, who are good communicators. And then you had presidents who are probably smarter, like President Carter. Who I think, was a rocket scientist. Or pretty darn close to a rocket scientist.

Jon Groth:

And I think history says he’s one of the worst presidents, because he didn’t have that ability to communicate. He had a speech called the malaise. He was talking about the malaise of America. When if he would’ve used different words and communicated in a different fashion, he might have been a two term president. But anyway, I digress. But it’s just interesting, because that’s a fantastic point. That if you can’t communicate properly with the other side and know what they want and how you can get your point across to them, it’s going to be difficult to really accomplish your goals.

Jon Groth:

There’s a book that I’m in the middle of listening to, and I can’t remember the name of it. But I think it’s called Never Split The Difference. It’s a really good book. You should read it. It’s a former, I think he’s an FBI negotiator. And it just talks about the use of words, the use of inflection in your voice. And if you have a certain inflection, up or down. And then can have certain patterns in how you talk, it can really change what somebody else perceives you. And perceives… Or perceives what you want. So it’s just interesting to think of something not with what you want, but with somebody else, or what they are seeing. And what action you want them to perform, when they’re listening to your words and your inflection. And your demeanor in general.

Giancarlo:

And I think that applies not only to the law. I think that applies in all walks of life, and in all aspects of life. Because in a sense, that’s what got me into history to begin with. That’s what gave me the passion for history. Going back a little bit in my past, in high school, my school had two history teachers. One of them was a genius. He knew everything, but it was like a textbook. He just memorized everything. He’d recited back to you. And then, half the school got put with that teacher. And then I think it was just my class and one other, that we got put with another teacher. Where he would… As freshman in high school, you’re very nervous about your first day of high school. And then here comes this teacher that we’re talking about Nixon, and he brings a Richard Nixon mask. Puts it on, and starts acting in the class. If he’s talking about a war, he’s throwing chairs, throwing desks. He’s making it really interesting, where you feel like you’re living out that history that he’s talking about.

Giancarlo:

Whether it’s something serious, or it’s something… Whether it’s a war, or just a person’s background. He would always act it out or do things that young, impressionable minds relate to. So from that day on… I mean, I still keep in touch with him. Someone that I met when I was 14 years old. I feel the need to… Whenever I go back, I message him. Would you like to have lunch? Hey, I’m one year away from getting my law degree. And he influenced me that much. He may not have been as smart or known everything off the top of his head like the other teacher, but he impacted me in a way. Because, I understood everything he was saying. And he painted a picture. So when I think about it, I can picture I guess, myself there. How the events took place.

Jon Groth:

Yeah. And I think that’s a very good point. When we’re talking about painting a picture or telling a story, that’s what our job is as trial attorneys. Being advocates for others. Being able to tell their story. And get the most important parts of what happened in their life, after a car crash or something else. And be able to express that to the insurance company. To that one adjuster. So that, that adjuster gets it.

Jon Groth:

And then if the adjuster doesn’t, and then he has to go to an attorney, how do you get your point across? Or tell your client’s story to that attorney? And then ultimately, to 12 strangers. And have that theater where… I’ve had that exact situation, where you have the theater of trial. Where you are jumping from one side, to the other side. And you have your exhibits, and writing things on the whiteboard. Or having video or all those things, to keep the jury engaged.

Jon Groth:

And at the same time, express the main points of your argument to the judge, the jury and defense counsel. Yeah. That’s a very good point, when you’re talking about the ability to communicate with other people. And that’s a fantastic attribute to have as an attorney.

Giancarlo:

And I think most importantly, it helps you with your client. Because, your client may or may not have the same level of education or understanding of law as you do. So it’s important when you have a client… Let’s say you’re at trial, and the client is with you. If they don’t understand anything you’re saying, and you’re making arguments for them, they may not feel like they’re being represented correctly. Because the way you speak… If you speak in a way that they don’t understand or you I guess, just try to show them what you know, instead of showing that you really understand them and make their arguments for them, then they won’t feel like they’re getting represented properly. Even if you’re doing everything right. You want your client to know that you understand them, and that you are fighting for them. And when they hear you talk to them and on behalf of them, they feel like, okay. My point that I want to get across, is being put across.

Jon Groth:

Yeah. And that’s speaking with somebody, not speaking at somebody. And I think that’s fantastic. And having the client’s expectations in mind, from the very beginning. And knowing what their background is, so you can really understand what you have to do to tell their story. And be together on the same page, when you’re advocating for that client.

Jon Groth:

Boy, so what should this podcast be called? I think it’s… We went from your background in history, criminology, business, to FSU quarterbacks. To just general, how to be a good communicator.

Jon Groth:

What does it take to be a good lawyer? What kind of communication skills do you need to be a good lawyer? Something along those lines. That can be the title of this podcast.

Jon Groth:

We were going to talk about the two demands. That’s what we talked about, off of our recording here. So there’s the one that, this kid fell on ice. Was leaving school, and walked out. And fell an ice. Is that what happened?

Giancarlo:

It was during class. So I’m assuming from the facts, that it was… They were doing homework. I’m assuming they’re sitting in their chairs, doing their homework. And then, the child needed assistance with the homework. But the teacher was, I don’t know. Either taking a smoke break or something, that the teacher was outside.

Giancarlo:

So when the student was told that the teacher was outside, she went outside looking for help. And then as she was outside looking for help, is when she slipped on the ice.

Jon Groth:

Okay. So it’s a matter of… It’s called the safe place law, in Wisconsin. Did the key… Well, the property manager, the owner of the property keep the property as safe as the nature of the property would reasonably permit? And maybe, it was black ice that you wouldn’t really see it. It looks more wet than it does slippery.

Jon Groth:

So the kid fell. And then, depending on the age of the child. Is the child contributorily, or can they be even held contributorily negligent. If they’re five years old, they can’t. For example. So that’s interesting.

Jon Groth:

Okay. And then, the other case? What’s the other facts scenario?

Giancarlo:

The other, the child was younger. The child was two years old. In the previous case, I think the child was 10 or 11. So in this one, the facts were a little not specific.

Giancarlo:

So he was sitting on a teacher’s lap, on a stage. It sounded like it was a pop up stage. I guess, those cafeteria tables that you fold or whatnot. And then I guess as another student stepped onto that stage, something collapsed. Either the stage on itself, or some… There was some sort of collapse, where…

Jon Groth:

Some failure.

Giancarlo:

Yes.

Jon Groth:

Some mechanical failure, I would call it.

Giancarlo:

Yes. Some mechanical failure where the child broke or fractured one of his toes, I believe. Somewhere on the foot.

Jon Groth:

So that again, is a premises liability type case. And it would be I would say, a safe place statute kind of case. Did the school or the property owner keep the property or that stage, as safe as the nature of the property reasonably permit? And did the teacher being the person in charge, break any protocols or any rules, or any standards that you shouldn’t have X number of pounds on that stage?

Jon Groth:

And I would say, it’s pretty obvious that they broke those standards. That they violated the standards. Because, the proofs in the pudding. That it failed.

Giancarlo:

Either on the teacher’s end. Or if this is some mechanical failure, there may be some locks in place that were not properly secured. That wasn’t clear. But it’s definitely one of those two.

Jon Groth:

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Those are not your typical cases. It’s not like somebody’s rear ended by a drunk driver.

Giancarlo:

Well so far, that’s a hundred percent of the ones I’ve seen. So I look forward to expanding and looking at all the different types of cases that we get.

Jon Groth:

Cool. Well, thank you for your time.

Giancarlo:

Thank you.

Jon Groth:

Boy, we’ve covered a lot of topics here. So you are the 2L?

Giancarlo:

3L.

Jon Groth:

You’re a 3L? Because, you said a year. You said to your history teacher, that you’re going to be done in a year.

Giancarlo:

Yes. So in May, 2023.

Jon Groth:

Well, that’s not a year. That’s only…

Giancarlo:

Oh, I guess. A school year. One school year.

Jon Groth:

That was one school year.

Giancarlo:

Yeah. I was thinking of a school year.

Jon Groth:

Because, that’s… Gosh. I mean that’s only seven months, eight months away.

Giancarlo:

It’s very… I definitely had those last first day feels when I feel like my entire life, I’ve been in school. So this is…

Jon Groth:

Well if you’re a lifelong learner, that’s a good thing. You may be in the school of hard knocks going forward, but you won’t be in a classroom school. So I understand that.

Jon Groth:

Cool. Well, thank you for the time. I appreciate you taking the time away from attorney Truesdale and his briefing, that he has you helping out with.

Jon Groth:

So good luck with everything. And hopefully, we can have you back in the next couple weeks. We can talk about other topics.

Giancarlo:

Thank you. I appreciate you for having me.

Jon Groth:

Awesome. Thank you.

Giancarlo:

Thank you.

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